Stars and Bars to welcome you to Florida

By
Real Estate Agent with Orlando Area Real Estate Services

flagIt is apprently the world's largest Confederate flag - measuring some 50 ft by 30 ft - and tomorrow it will fly where I75 meets I4 on a private triangle of land. It will be seen by the millions (literally) of tourists as they head to the State to visit our world famous attractions - and, in my opinion, it is simply sick.

The Sons of Confederate Veterans in Tampa will fly this atop a 139 foot flagpole tomorrow but hope to be able to get permission to fly it on a permanent basis on some kind of future museum to confederate veterans.

Now of course if that does happen, the tourists will still never know. They will still see this symbol of racism and slavery as they arrive in Central Florida and who knows what they will think of us.

I'm not interested in the history. Don't tell me the war was about unfair taxes. The flag represents eveil to a lot of people and I have a message to The Sons of Confederate Veterans in Tampa. YOU LOST! To me this is equal to someone deciding to fly the Swastika.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

(Copyright © 2008 By Simon L Conway All Rights Reserved.)

Please give me a call if you have questions about the Central Florida real estate market.  You can reach me on 407 876 8200.  Also visit my web site at www.simonconway.net or www.move2orlando.net

Tune in to Simon on The Simon Conway Radio Experience on am1520 WHIM. The show airs in Central Florida at 4pm Eastern and is also available worldwide at  http://www.1520whim.com/

 

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Rainmaker
404,265
Simon Conway
Orlando Area Real Estate Services - Orlando, FL

Joan - not a chance they will reconsider. So far everything has cost them $80,000. The flag by the way, was made in China! The Stars and Stripes outside my home was made in America. I checked before I ordered it.

Jun 02, 2008 10:09 PM #7
Anonymous
Anonymous
NJ Bosley
Simon, I really am sick and tired of seeing that damn confederate flag. As I posted months back, where I live here in Ohio I see it flying everywhere. I even see them decaled on the back window of vehicles!! Its completely disgusting to me and I swear not one day goes by without seeing at least two or three of them. Oh and I made sure my Stars and Stripes I fly everyday was made in american before I ordered mine as well. *L* NJ
Jun 03, 2008 12:20 AM #8
Rainmaker
368,469
Ted Baker
Carmody and Associates LLC - Winter Haven, FL
MidFloridaMediation.com

< sigh > aren't you all the same folks who spoke for free expression last week ? Is not the Confederate Flag an accurate part of the history of the Country and the Region ?

Slavery was wrong from the first day that an African slave was taken from his home against his will.  It was wrong when the Declaration of Independence promised that all men are created equal.  It was wrong when the Constitution was adopted giving slaves representation as property as a fraction of a non-slave.  It is wrong today where it still occurs around the world. 

But all soldiers who served that flag were not evil.  All southern aristocrats who contributed to the foundation of the country while owning slaves to include Washington and Jefferson were not evil. And all those who died under that flag were not evil. The war dead on both sides of the Civil War thought they were serving their country.

Pure bigotry and hatred without a showing of purpose or intent ? Doesn't this sound familiar to anybody ?

On, Dear - I think I just bit the hand that feeds me.

I may be wrong, but I at least try to be consistent. 

When Lincoln gave his Getteysburg Address, I would like to think he was speaking of those who died on both sides.

If words or symbols can be racist per se - without a showing of purpose or intent even when there is an alternate meaning available - then you just ceded the major point of the argument to the other side.

I hear hoofbeats (I am trying not to think of Lemmings)

I guess we all have our biases and prejudices.  But I will miss you, Bill.

 

Jun 03, 2008 12:42 AM #9
Anonymous
Anonymous
NJ Bosley
Nope TED, I wasn't one of those folks that spoke for freedom of expression last week. Sorry. As for this week I am putting in my opinion on a flag that I feel should not in anyway come before the "Stars and Stripes" but where I live, these people fly it either above the american flag or just the confederate. That's just not right !
Jun 03, 2008 01:02 AM #10
Rainmaker
368,469
Ted Baker
Carmody and Associates LLC - Winter Haven, FL
MidFloridaMediation.com

to NJ Bosley - I agree with you that no flag should fly above the Stars and Stripes.

If the Confederate Flag were to fly on a monument with only Confederate soldiers.  Would that make a difference to you ?

Jun 03, 2008 01:12 AM #11
Rainmaker
404,265
Simon Conway
Orlando Area Real Estate Services - Orlando, FL

Ted - I agree that they have every right to fly it. I agree that many of the Confederate soldiers were good people. It is unfortunate that the symbol has been hijacked and the vast majority regard it as a symbol of white supremacy, slavery and hatred. It will be extremely upsetting to a lot of people arriving in Florida as well as many who live here.

Now let's look at this. The Swastika. I agree it was a hijacked symbol. I agree many of the soldiers on the German side in WWII were good people. To most people now this symbol means fascism, evil and hatred.

I do not want either one of those flags flying in this country - but we both know they have a right to do so. And just to be clear - I would not ban them from doing so or take away their right to do so. I just think it is sad that they want to.

Jun 03, 2008 07:50 AM #12
Rainmaker
1,088,861
Bryant Tutas
Bryant Tutas-Tutas Towne Realty, Inc - Poinciana, FL
Broker/REALTOR, Tutas Towne Realty, Inc

I have a thought....if we want to talk about symbols .....let's look at the cross. Think about the crusades and the inquisition. Should the cross not be displayed? The cross was actually one of the worst forms of execution that ever existed. BUT.....to Christians it is a symbol of salvation. 

I watched the news about the flag yesterday and it seems like the folks that live in the area where it will be displayed had NO problem with it. Then of course the NAACP stepped in and began telling folks how they should feel.

It's just a symbol. It has different meanings for different people. The flag is not the issue. People and their prejudices are the problem.

One of my favorite songs is "Amazing Grace". It was written by a slave trader.

Jun 03, 2008 08:05 AM #13
Rainer
68,801
Judy Tuscano
Prudential Verani Realty - Nottingham, NH
NH Real Estate Professional

Simon - Ted has his point but I tend to agree with you that these symbols have been hijacked and send a message of hate to many. ON the other hand it is just a flag and should we not find out why these people want to display it because isn't it their intentions that matter more than the flag itself? The soldiers that died fighting for the south were fighting to preserve their homes and families - granted that there were many underlaying issues including slavery but not that exclusively. This seems to be a situation where no one wins.

Jun 03, 2008 08:16 AM #14
Rainmaker
368,469
Ted Baker
Carmody and Associates LLC - Winter Haven, FL
MidFloridaMediation.com

Simon and Bryant - I agree with both of you.

Words and symbols are both forms of communication.  We, as individuals, have different life experiences and frames of reference.  When I use certain words or symbols, I may have a specific meaning in my mind.  When you see the same words or symbols, the message you see may not be the one I intended - and we have a failure to communicate (for Cool Hand Luke movie fans).

I can be judged for my biases or prejudices but I would prefer not to be judged for the biases or prejudices of my readers or listeners - which I cannot control or, possibly anticipate.

 

Jun 03, 2008 08:17 AM #15
Rainmaker
825,819
Nicholas Goglucci
South Florida Real Estate & Development, Inc. - Pompano Beach, FL
The Listing Whisperer

IT WAS WRITTEN BY A FORMER SLAVE TRADER. It was written by a man who gave his life to Christ and was transformed. He put away his former occupation and ideology.

Jun 03, 2008 08:27 AM #16
Rainmaker
201,617
Inna Hardison
ha media group - Orlando, FL
Wordpress for Real Estate & Design, Print HaMedia Group

Very very slowily backing out of the room...

Symbols are tough in their many possible connotations and interpretations, hence they are just that, symbols. Ted is right, though, in my opinion, we may worry about the preceptions of this state by the visitors, or inject some of our own prejudices into the cofederate flag, but it doesn't change the fact that they can fly it. There is nothing sick in either their desire to do so or their ability to do so.

As for another note on 'backwards Fl' when it comes to racism - Simon, if you drive a half hour or so north heading towards Samsula/Port Orange area, on most Sundays you can still see the KKK congregating out in the fields, and yes, burning crosses, and holding their rallies. At times, you can see if from the highway - not a pretty picture. Still though, goes to the ancient question, can one be good if evil was not an option?

Best :-)

Jun 03, 2008 08:28 AM #17
Anonymous
Anonymous
NJ Bosley
Ted, I'm glad we do agree on the issue of the Stars and Stripes being flown above all. The reason I have such a problem with the confederate flag is because where I live, it is indeed obviously being flown as a symbol of hate and racism (white supremacy). I am in a small community 40 miles east of Cleveland. We have about a handful of African-Americans living here. In the eight years I have lived here that population has not increased. It should of but it hasnt. Now, I was raised in the Pacific Northwest and some of my very best friends were African-American so I really have a problem I guess in the meaning behind why these morons here fly that flag above all others. BTW..... I do agree with most all you said, they are free to fly that flag. I don't want to take anyone's freedom to do so away from them but I just feel better choices could be made here where I reside and on the bright side I'll be moving from here in about a year so at least I won't have to see it waving in front of my face too much longer.
Jun 03, 2008 08:50 AM #18
Rainmaker
404,265
Simon Conway
Orlando Area Real Estate Services - Orlando, FL

Inna - well I'd be happy to take a trip to Samsula with you. That is really scary.

Jun 03, 2008 09:22 AM #19
Ambassador
528,640
Rich Jacobson
Keller Williams West Sound Realty - Poulsbo, WA
Your Kitsap County WA Real Estate Broker

My 'Respect-O-Meter' for Mr. Baker just pegged the scale.....

Jun 03, 2008 10:07 AM #20
Rainmaker
367,837
Kevin Robinson
Twin Falls, ID
High End Vacation Homes

I agree with Ted on this one. I bet not everyone who flies a Confederate flag is racist. There was, and is, another component to what the South stood for. That component always gets overshadowed by the slave issue.

Jun 03, 2008 10:16 AM #21
Rainmaker
201,617
Inna Hardison
ha media group - Orlando, FL
Wordpress for Real Estate & Design, Print HaMedia Group

Simon - I'll work on it, and see what we can set up...

Jun 03, 2008 11:41 AM #22
Rainmaker
563,876
Mike Saunders
Lanier Partners - Athens, GA

I agree with Ted. The confederate flag is a symbol of more than slavery. I know many, who, by no stretch of the imagination, could be considere racist but display the confederate flag. Not all those who seceded were racist. Many of those in the north, that didn't secede, were.

As for the swastika, it has been in use for thousands of years by Hindu's, Buhdists, Navajo and other Native American, European & Asian cultures.

People are so afraid of symbolism, that they want toss aside any and everything that might use that symbol, declaring it racist, or hateful, whatever.

This has gotten so bad the LA had to remove the cross from it's city emblem. It represented hundreds of years of heritage. It reflected it's start as a mission. Yet toss that symbol because it offended some people.

5 year old kids are getting suspended from school and requiring counseling because they drew a picture resembling a gun or a knife, or they spoke the word.

Slavery is/was abominable. The wholesale slaughter of 6 million Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, mentally challanged, ect. evil.

But the swastika, the Confederate flag, are not, in and of themselves, evil (or even symbols of evil, that is in the eye or heart or mind of the beholder).

How many who think the Confederate flag is evil think the same about the Billy Idol song, Rebel Yell. Where do they think the term rebel yell comes from. From the battle cry of the men in gray charging behind that flag.

How many who find the confederate flag offensive are not offended by Robert Byrd, former KKK member and a leader of the Democratic party's opposition to the Civil Rights and Voting rights acts of the 60's.

How many who find the confederate flag offensive and want to suppress the flying of it uphold and even actively support Jeremiah Wright's or Louis Farakahn's vitriol.

How many are willing to demand First Ammendment rights for some but deny those same rights because they find them offensive.

Listen UP Amurica. We got bigger problems than that.

Jun 03, 2008 12:44 PM #23
Rainmaker
404,265
Simon Conway
Orlando Area Real Estate Services - Orlando, FL

Mike - you are taking history as opposed to what this actually means to so many people. It actually doesn't matter if they are wrong, because the message is the same one that they will hear.

Once more - for the record -  I would not ban this; I would not take away their right to fly this flag - in fact I would defend their right to do so - but I wish (key word) they didn't actually want to because of how many people will be offended by it.

The Swastika is the same in so far as the original symbol and what it meant is just not relevant. The message it now sends is one of hate and evil and death. I'm not sure, but I think it is actually illegal to fly that flag in germany these days and I wouldn't have passed that law.

Jun 03, 2008 12:58 PM #24
Rainmaker
563,876
Mike Saunders
Lanier Partners - Athens, GA

Simon, you are right about Germany. Germany also has laws agains questioning the holocaust.

Would you ask people not to display the cross because of how many would be offended by it?

I understand your point, Simon. However, what else are we going to give up for fear of offending some one or some group? You can't use the word yacht in California state school's because it might offend those who can't afford one. In some schools we can't fly the flag for fear of offending someone. For gosh sake, that is the symbol of our country. Private companies have forbidden displays of American flags on desks and in cubicles because it might offend some employee or customer.

My point is we should not let symbols have so much control over us, nor should we let people have so much control over our symbols. When will this madness end?

Jun 03, 2008 02:18 PM #25
Anonymous
Anonymous
John

Every flag offends somebody, American Indians are offended by the Stars and stripes. ANCESTORS of the present day American Indian were slaughtered and their land was stolen in the name of the STARS and STRIPES. ANCESTORS of many southerners of United States did buy slaves from AFRICAN tribes. Is it wrong for many African Americans to be offended when they see the flag of a West African country that sold their ancestors into slavery? or the symbol of the West Indian Trading Company that profitted from the sale of Africans to southern states.  When you start telling people what kind of flag they can fly where will it stop.

Nov 16, 2008 05:51 PM #26
Anonymous
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