So... You Want To "Defend" Marriage... Do You ?

By
Real Estate Agent with New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County

This coming November... the State of California voters are going to be asked to "define" what a marriage is.  The idea behind it is that a marriage must be between a man and a woman, and not between two persons of the same sex.  Many conservatives claim that to do otherwise... "dilutes" or somehow "lessens" or "erodes" the value of the heretofore heterosexual-only marriage.

Does it really ?  Hmmm.  What could be some of the "other" possibilities that dilute, lessen or erode the institution of the traditional marriage ?  And... what could be done to "combat" those things ?

How about a ban on Adultery ?  Now... Adultery has been "forbidden" by the bible for centuries and centuries.  But... it happens every day.  Affairs are often seen as a good "cure" for boredom in a marriage.  So... why not indulge ?  It's only an affair ?  It doesn't mean anything !  At least, that is the typical answer someone caught in an affair by their husband or wife often comes up with. 

How about having anyone who is guilty of adultery be "displayed" in the old-timey "stocks" in the local public square from 9:00am until 5:00pm for one solid Monday thru Friday time period ?  I wonder if that would help stop the "eroding" of the value of marriages ?

What would happen if all of the energy that is currently being put into the "definition of marriage" movement was channeled into prohibiting adultery ?  How much of an effect would that have... on "shoring up" the value of a traditional marriage ? 

How about doing away with divorce ?  Divorce has also been "forbidden" by various religions over the centuries.  Over fifty percent of all marriages end in divorce.  So... why don't we do away with divorces ?  Or... make it a part of marriage law that once a divorce is applied for... two solid years of marriage counseling is required.  Or... perhaps mandate a five-year waiting period before the divorce can be granted.  The only exception would be for spousal or child abuse... or both.

What would happen if all of the energy that is currently being put into the "definition of marriage" movement was channeled into prohibiting divorce ?  How much of an effect would that have... on "shoring up" the value of a traditional marriage ?

Perhaps if those entering marriage took their vows more seriously... and concentrated on their own families... and centered their energies on their own "family values"... instead of getting "all in a wad" over someone else's marriage... this entity called "marriage" would no longer need to be defended or defined.

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Rainmaker
996,094
Karen Anne Stone
New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County - Fort Worth, TX
Fort Worth Real Estate

Barbara:  I am flattered by your kind words.  I would love to run for office.. but unfortunately I do not have the common sense to keep my mouth closed, and keep my opinions to myself... when speaking them would not be the "most popular" thing to do.  

I had a great education.  Grade school, high school, college and post-grad in the Catholic schools... but the best was my college years studying with the Jesuits.  That was back... way back when before the Catholic Church drove it's truck off the deep end.  They have left their "ecumenical" push behind... and have become much more "evangelical."  It is no longer the loving church the dear sisters introduced me to as a child.

Their current pope... Benedict XVI... was referred to as the "pope's rotweiller" by his co-cardinals before he became pope.  He was the chief "doctrine enforcer."  He has done more to slide "his" church back into the Dark Ages than any pope I can remember.  

So, Barbara... how is that for opening a can or worms ?  Yes... I can see me running for office... LOL.  I can much more easily imagine myself running away from an angry torch-bearing mob wanting to string me up.  I have never been one who had the sense to be satisfied with the status-quo when I thought the status-quo was wrong.  So much for running for office.  But... in my imagination... it might have been fun.  So... thanks again for the your kindness of your words.  Take care...

Nov 14, 2008 06:04 AM #69
Rainmaker
996,094
Karen Anne Stone
New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County - Fort Worth, TX
Fort Worth Real Estate

JoLynn:  Your suggestion just makes so much sense.  Live and Let Live.  But unfortunately those who are the loudest are so much into their Dogma.  I am sorry, but they are trying to get their "Dogma to eat my Karma."  Not going to happen.  Although Proposition 8 was passed in California, and they see that as a "victory"... I think they fail to realize that their way over-the-edge screetchings did an awful lot to put Barack Obama into the White House.  They have gone too far, and across the country... many people... seeing that happen... are choosing Christ-like behavior over what they call the "christian" beliefs these people espouse.  JoLynn... thanks for sharing.

Nov 14, 2008 06:11 AM #70
Rainer
25,155
Allen Kavanaugh
VIP Realty Group, Inc - Fort Myers, FL
ABR, e-PRO,

Karen,

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU... That us what I have been saying since this tragic night of the passing of a HATE filled Proposition passed.

My Partner and I have been together for almost 20 yrs now. I can not for the life of me inderstand what my marriage would affect another str8 couples marriage for the life of me. Our relationship has OUTLASTED two of my siblings due to DIVORCE and INFEDILITY. My parents marriage lasted 26 yrs vefore they got DIVORCED also because of Infedility. Had NOTHING to do with my partner adn I wanting to get married esp since my parents were already divorced prior to our meeting. but the STr8's has the nerves to say my Marriage will be the end all of marriage as they know it.

They Cling to thier Bibles to say Marriage is a sacred thing. Marriage was created to legally transfer property and items in case of death adn for procreation. there are alot of marriages out thier that DID NOT bear Children. The Bible also stated that women are property of men once they were married that is why the wives family offered doweries to the man to prove her wealth to the man she was to marry. Slavery was also supported by the Bible, many wars supported in the name of the Bible, the inquisition was supported by the cathlic church in the name of the bible and much more.

the Bible thumpers CAN NOT pick and choose thier battles nor thier definations or the way they want to interupit the bible for thier own causes.

love is love my marriage to my loving partner doesnt effect your marriage to your wife or husband. and btw, Civil unions ARE NOT the same as Marriage. TheyDO NO have the same rights as Marriage. marriage has over 1100 rights while Civil unions are different from state to state and none of the federal rights allowed to a married couple. When my partner had his quadruple Bypass two yrs ago I had to go to our lawyers to ensure I would be ableto visit him talk to his doctors etc which if we had the legal rights we would not of had to of spent the money or precious time doing this.

so please dont tell me that my marriage is worthless and a civil union would be just as good why should I seetle for second best when my taxes are paid at teh same rate if not higher than your married taxes are payed at shame on you who claim it is the same and thank you karen for stading up for what is right

 

 

Nov 16, 2008 04:22 PM #71
Rainmaker
719,819
Barbara S. Duncan
RE/MAX Advantage - Searcy, AR
CRS, GRI, e-PRO, Searcy AR

Allen Kavanaugh, you spelled this all out so well.  I added you as an associate.  There are so many divorced people sitting in the pews or cheaters or racists or sexists.  But is the sermon directed their way.  Absolutely not.  PIcking on gays and lesbians is the popular sin to preach about.  I wish those preachers could understand all the young kids sitting out there with hormones raging and directed in the way the preachers condemn and wondering why they are made the way they are.  They can't help it.  Thanks for your comment.

Nov 16, 2008 07:05 PM #72
Rainer
25,155
Allen Kavanaugh
VIP Realty Group, Inc - Fort Myers, FL
ABR, e-PRO,

Barbara,

 Thank you for your kind words I am adding you as well

Allen

Nov 19, 2008 03:35 PM #73
Rainer
18,318
Carol Lynne Bull
Keller Williams - Alexandria, VA

Cameron,   the people to first come here were religious fanatics. And, what came out of the prisons  they opened the doors that day. We might have been started in a Judea/Christian tradition but the Christian strain was whacked to Begin with. They were also extremely intolerant. When  members of Holy Mother Church { we Catholics } made it here we had to run to Maryland to keep from being killed. Goooo Christians!

Carol

 

 

 

Nov 28, 2008 02:54 PM #74
Rainer
120,167
Brenda Carus
Century 21 Zwygart Real Estate - Monroe, WI

Here, Here! Same sex marriage does far less to diminish the sanctity of my marriage than the ludicrious divorce and adultery rates do.  As for those who want same-sex individuals to settle for civil unions, I wonder is those same people would be okay with their marriages being reduced to civil union status?  Everyone deserves to be able to marry their partner in life. 

Nov 29, 2008 11:22 AM #75
Rainmaker
333,398
Eric Kodner
Wayzata Lakes Realty: Eric Kodner Sells Twin Cities Homes - Minnetonka, MN
Wayzata Lakes Realty: Twin Cities, Madeline Island

Karen Anne, there will always be the few who see hate and discrimination against those they do not like as a "family value".  Fortunately, they're a minority.  And those folks pretty much got their heads handed to them last November.

Mar 23, 2009 07:22 PM #76
Anonymous
Anonymous
Anonymous

I felt that anyone with a divorce should have been excluded from voting on the sanctity of marriage. My guess is the results would have been a little different.

Incidentally, I was able to get hitched to my partner of 16 years; the ceremony was officiated by Sen. Darrell Steinberg on September 20th 2008. So far, still married...

Thanks for the post!

Apr 03, 2009 08:50 PM #77
Rainmaker
501,015
Lori Cain
Chinowth & Cohen Realtors - Tulsa, OK
Midtown Tulsa Real Estate Top Producer

I'm so sorry that I don't have the patience to read the previous 77 comments in their entirety, although Cameron's replies did catch my eye.

Cameron, the God to which I pray is a loving God, who loves all mankind (and womankind).

I am even hesitant to suggest "tolerance," because I'm clueless what it is that we're suppose to be tolerant of.

I've been involved in this equal rights' battle for twenty years plus, and I'm damn sick of intolerant, homophobic people. Get past it. The homosexuals are not bothering you.

I am proud that I spoke before the City Council many years ago to get "permission" for Tulsa's first gay-pride parade. We have come miles and miles since then.

We have to take classes to get divorced -- if the Oklahoma legislators had their way, you would have to produce a battered woman in court before you could get divorced.

Proud to say that I'm straight, but NOT NARROW!

And, best wishes to all the newlyweds!!!

Lori

Jul 26, 2009 08:33 PM #78
Rainmaker
996,094
Karen Anne Stone
New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County - Fort Worth, TX
Fort Worth Real Estate

Lori:  Welcome to my post !  This Cameron fellow is just as filled with his cult's kool-aid as can be.  I also wonder if he just might be speaking from the "closet."  As Shakespeare said... "methinks he protests too much."

As I said to Cameron... if he wants to marry his television set... he should.  Who cares ?  Two men or two women getting married... is a beautiful thing.  They pledge themselves to each other in exactly the same way that a mixed-sex couple do.  No different... no harm.  Why people like Cameron, and other intolerant fools and so-called Christians can become so hate-filled... and spew so much venom... just makes them look all that much more foolish... and non-Christian.  Thanks so much for your comment.  Straight but not narrow... I love it !  Take care...

Jul 26, 2009 09:53 PM #79
Rainmaker
395,954
Cameron Novak
The Homefinding Center - Corona, CA
Featured Corona Real Estate Agent Team

Lori... I never said that homosexuals are "bothering me".  I simply said that a "marriage license" is for a man and woman.  If someone wants to create a "homosexual license" more power to them.  I think I've said it prior, but... I can't get a dog license for a cat, because a Dog is defined as a Canine.  In the same manner, a marriage is an institution which was created for a man and woman and it shouldn't be changed to suit those who are screaming.  I didn't say they shouldn't be able to live together as a couple or share rights that those in a "marriage" share.  Speaking of Dog Licenses... Why can't I get one for Karen?

 

 

Jul 26, 2009 10:40 PM #80
Rainmaker
501,015
Lori Cain
Chinowth & Cohen Realtors - Tulsa, OK
Midtown Tulsa Real Estate Top Producer

Cameron, WHERE do you "get" that marriage is for a man and woman ONLY? That is utter bullshit. I don't know what plantet YOU'RE from. Seriously, WHERE do you find this written in stone?

And, Cameron, WHY are you on this post? This group, I believe, is intended for those who support LGBT causes -- if you don't support this -- WHY are you here?

Karen -- very pleased to meet you and pleased to be here!

Jul 26, 2009 11:10 PM #81
Rainmaker
395,954
Cameron Novak
The Homefinding Center - Corona, CA
Featured Corona Real Estate Agent Team

Lori,   You're kidding right?  You don't know that marriage was created as an institution between a man and a woman?  Maybe it's the water over there in the bible belt.

As I recall, the oldest recordation of marriage and it's intent to mean an institution between a man and woman are in the religious records (the quran, the bible, etc.).

As far as recorded history, Ignatius spoke of seeking the blessing of the Bishop before the Marriage of a men and women in the early 100's.

One more think Lori,  if you take a look at the topic of the original post, Karen was addressing those who want to support the "traditional" marriage.  By doing so, she invited opposing views.  Unfortunately, she doesn't have the mental ammunition to win the war of words... she must resort to name calling as you may have noticed.

Jul 26, 2009 11:34 PM #82
Rainer
18,318
Carol Lynne Bull
Keller Williams - Alexandria, VA

Hi Carol here to add some wood to the fire.  Marriage was invented to keep property in the family. Catholic Priests were allowed to marry till the church started losing land. Don't get me started on the chipping away of the rights of women. Marriage was used to keep them silent and breeding sons and unable to be their own person.

Aug 31, 2009 12:50 PM #83
Rainmaker
996,094
Karen Anne Stone
New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County - Fort Worth, TX
Fort Worth Real Estate

Carol:  Marriage was not even in existence further back in history.  Back in time... before the Minoans, before the Greeks, society was Matrifocal, Matricentric and Matrilineal.  I am talking 3,000 and 4,000 BC... that time period.  The "gods" were Goddesses.  The woman was the head of the "family."  Land and possessions were passed from mother to daughter.  The man with the "highest standing" in the women-centered families... was the mother's brother.

Women ruled society.  There were no wars, things were peaceful.  Then came the invasions.  Male armies came from the north and the east... barbarians.  As they pillaged and plundered, and gradually took over parts of society, they, of course, would have no part of the "women-centered" society that they found existing and flourishing in the area that was the "cradle of civilization."  And, of course, with these invading armies of men... their Male Gods came with them.  The Goddesses were plundered, their statues and temples were plundered, and the invaders male gods were installed as the "rulers" of the heavens.

That... in history... is the time when everything started "going downhill."  Men "took" the women, and of course, made them "their own."  They were little better than possessions. Actually... often women were worse off then the animals also owned by the men.

And, since science had not yet progressed to the point where paternity could be proved, marriage-like societal institutions were forced on women.  Mainly, so the men could PROVE who their own heirs were.  Without tying the women to the men in enforced marriages, it would not be possible to prove whose child belonged to whom... and thus... whose "heir..." and of course, whose MALE heir would inherit both the possessions and the power when the ruling "Father" died.

It is all about control.         (8-31-2009)

Aug 31, 2009 03:05 PM #84
Rainer
18,318
Carol Lynne Bull
Keller Williams - Alexandria, VA

Karen,  You are right. The first time I responded to the masses on your post, I went over board on the history of the subjugation of women. From both the Irish and Euro points of view. But, my lap top is fussy and deleted my reply. I editited my second post. It is good to know some one else is reading the same books.

Aug 31, 2009 05:57 PM #85
Rainmaker
107,496
Dana Devine
Charles Rutenberg Realty - Apollo Beach, FL

Great blog   but i have to agree Susie in #35,,,,Karen   just a thougth   not at you just  for the masses   I wonderful....are  2 guys or gals live together all the time after collage but nobody says a word  but as soon as they say married that is wrong,,,because they came out....or is it the idea of the sex with the same sex that bothers people....ok i am going to say it   what men and women of same sex do in their bedroom...so do opposite sex people do in their bedroom

Nov 04, 2009 06:41 PM #86
Rainmaker
996,094
Karen Anne Stone
New Home Hunters of Fort Worth and Tarrant County - Fort Worth, TX
Fort Worth Real Estate

Dana:  I honestly think the main problem with many folks who object to same-sex couples... is that they themselves are a tad more insecure about their OWN sexuality than they feel comfortable with. 

There IS no homosexual life-style... just as there IS no heterosexual life-style... just as there IS no left-handed person's lifestyle... or no blue-eyed person's lifestyle.

People live, they work, they play, they eat and sleep, and they love.  Who they love... as long as they are all consenting adults... should not matter to anyone else except the two people involved.  Just as where they live, where they work and what they do, what they eat, and how they sleep.  It only matters to them.

And... why does it matter WHERE they "do" it ?  I remember one really wonderful evening I spent in an apple orchard up in Northern Virginia... but, that's another post for another time... LOL.

Nov 04, 2009 08:05 PM #87
Rainmaker
476,663
Palm Springs Realtor Stewart Penn
Windermere Real Estate - Palm Springs - Palm Springs, CA
Windermere Real Estate - Associate Broker

UPDATE: Prop. 8 has been overturned and ruled unconstitutional - 8/4/2010.

"The fact that Prop. 8 passed as a voter initiative was irrelevant as fundamental rights may not be submitted to [a] vote; they depend on the outcome of no elections" - Judge Vaughn Walker.

Aug 08, 2010 09:59 PM #88
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Rainmaker
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Karen Anne Stone

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